"More Experienced"


Dear Caitlin:

I am currently a Manager in the IS audit practice of a Big 4 firm. I was promoted a year ago to manager, but effectively I have 2 years of solid management experience under my belt, since I really start managing both people and projects as an experienced senior. I am now looking for a job as an internal IS audit manager. I have applied for several positions and been to first and second rounds of interviews, but have now twice been told that although I was a really good candidate, I lost out to a "more experienced" person. I have 5 years of Big 4 (with great performance reviews), a CISA, good technical skills, a breadth of industry exposure, and 2 years of management experience. I have friends who have moved on to become managers in industry. Why I am I losing out on these management opportunities?

Thank you for your help.

Name Withheld as Requested




Dear More Experienced:

The situation you describe is not a phenomenon that is unique or unusual. No doubt you have friends or former colleagues who have moved out of Big 4 and landed management jobs. But think about the actual job they took: What is the size of the company they joined? How many staff do they have - i.e., staff who actually report directly to them?

And finally, did they take a management position in IS audit, or in another area, e.g., IT, risk management, IT internal controls, information security, SOX project management?

If your colleague was a first or second year manager, it is very likely s/he took on a role as a stand alone IS audit manager for a smaller firm (Fortune 300 - 1000) or possibly a startup role; or a position that is manager in title but only has staff assigned on a project basis from a pool of seniors (no direct reports). Another possibility is the IS audit manager (perhaps one of several managers reporting to a senior manager), who "manages" a portfolio of audit projects but has no staff. Alternatively your colleague may have moved to another consulting organization with a structure and skill requirements similar to a Big 4 firm. It is very unlikely that your colleague will have landed a job with a Fortune 50-300 company as the head of IT audit with a direct reporting staff of 4 or more professionals.

Large companies (Fortune 50-300) with complex internal audit structures and fairly large staff sizes, usually do not hire IS audit managers with less than a total of 8-10 years of career experience, including 1-2 years of management experience that involves managing, assessing, and developing direct reporting staff. Many large companies look for IS audit managers with even more years of career and management experience. A request for managers with 10-20 years of experience is very common. Thus, while your Big 4 longevity and matrixed management experience will be viewed positively, it will not be seen to be equivalent to management experience involving direct reports. Moreover, the one year acting as a manager (while still a senior) will not be counted as actual management experience by the majority of internal audit hiring directors. So when you are competing against candidates with more career experience and direct management experience, it is unlikely that you are going to be the front-runner for the position. Finally, since there are more IS audit management candidates available than IS audit management positions, you will undoubtedly be competing against IS audit professionals with more career and management experience than yourself.

Large companies need managers who can deal with a myriad of staff issues (development, conflict, motivation, team building, and so forth); they need seasoned leaders who have lived in dicey internal political environments; they need managers with strong business acumen and leadership skills that one typically does not develop in the first 5 years of career experience. In the complex, often dynamic environment of the Fortune 300 companies, directors look to hire managers who can demonstrate that they "have been there, and done that". Internal audit today is a demanding environment and the performance bar is high. A Fortune 100 company is not a venue for a novice to cut his/her teeth in management, and senior audit management is not willing to take that kind of risk with so much at stake.

So where do you go in order to leverage your robust career credentials? If you are absolutely intent on being a manager in title and compensation (but maybe without direct reporting staff), look for those opportunities to be a stand-alone IS audit manager or join a large department with a number of layers of management hierarchy where you can start at the first tier of management and work your way up. In these organizations it is likely you will have matrixed staff assigned on a project basis. (Large financial services institutions are often a good place to look for this kind of role.)

If the bigger career growth picture is more important than title, you have more options open to you. Large departments often have Specialist, Lead, or Supervisor roles that you would be well suited to undertake. You should also be aware that with the right-sizing trend of some years back, there are a number of highly rated audit departments with flat structures where everyone except the lone IS audit director / manager is a Senior in title. Some of these "Seniors" will have much longer career tenure than yourself (but not necessarily be "career auditors"), very specialized skills, or a huge amount of institutional knowledge. These can be great departments to learn and grow within, particularly if the company fosters movement out into the business units.

What about compensation in these scenarios? The best advice we can give you is to be realistic about your expectations. Because Big 4 salaries have risen rather dramatically since the onset of SOX, and internal audit salaries are still constrained after the recession (although we are seeing some conservative upward market adjustments), you will likely need to be willing to accept a modest salary increase or possibly a lateral salary with your new opportunity.

If your salary is on the high side against peers in your firm, you may need to think about stepping back a tad in order to achieve the right opportunity within an internal audit department. Whether you should do this or not, depends on a number of factors (which is something for a future career advice column!). Bottom-line: the key reason to step back modestly in pay is for a great opportunity with lots of future growth potential in a great company.



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